I know my mom and her team put a lot of work into making it successful, he says. In early 2012 they played their first show as Grahame Lesh & Friends. But, the lifestyle of musicians on the road is nothing new to Lesh, who was a newborn when the Grateful Dead hit superstar status with the double-platinum In the Dark. Recorded in the Marin Veterans Memorial Auditorium in San Rafael, it was the Deads only top 10 album, boosted by the bands one and only hit single, Touch of Grey.. Based in the musical hotbed of Marin County, California, Grahame Lesh is a guitar player and singer-songwriter for Midnight North, Phil Lesh & Friends, & the Terrapin Family Band. Grahame Lesh. What other band can do that when the most famous figure has been dead for 20 years? Midnight North Grahame Lesh Interview Ken Thorsen | Thursday Jul. As a music fan, who are some of your favorite artists to listen to? Were getting a lot of parents coming with their teenage kids to the shows, which is really fun. WebThe Real Housewives of Atlanta The Bachelor Sister Wives 90 Day Fiance Wife Swap The Amazing Race Australia Married at First Sight The Real Housewives of Dallas My 600-lb Life Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. I think the easiest answer is just that the songs are so good. Following an ill-fated attempt to open a venue in Fairfax, he and wife Jill, who live in Ross, bought the former Its beautiful song. After the shows were wrapped up on Thursday morning, we set off to Jake's ranch in central Alabama for yet another incredible family Thanksgiving. Its a really nice balance to have more than one front person, Peck says. Its a whole different attitude when you get a chance to meet all these different musicians who have similar goals, want the same things and are willing to work together instead of competing against each other.. We had to go through there. He seems himself as a part of a vibrant new music scene that has been built around the club, a kind of petri dish for young musicians to experiment and grow. Get the latest updates from Osiris straight to your inbox. I think thats something thats more timeless than a single show. He is facing at least two months in a skilled nursing facility, once he is stabilized and released from the Mayo hospital. We had to pull over. And of course we were back at it a couple of weeks later. TICKETS ARE NOW ON SALE. You can try things and the audience is willing to go on that journey with you.. Thats when they went from playing arenas to playing stadiums. In early 2012 they played their first show as Grahame Lesh & Friends. As a founder and co-frontperson (with Elliott Peck) for Midnight North, Grahame has played hundreds of concerts around the country and released 4 studio albums, 3 live albums, and two digital EPs of original music since the band's inception in 2012. A GoFundMe pagehas been launched to help Graham and Valerie with medical bills. years ago, when he was just growing into the great musician he is today. Those two are a big influence for a guy and a gal singing together, and they definitely are for us, Lesh says. 2012-2022 Midnight North. Your dad also writes about you convincing him to finally play Unbroken Chain live in 1995. Its been really fun. It was then revealed on his official Facebook page that the 79-year-old has contracted COVID-19. I was 8, and my dad was driving me to a summer science camp, he says. I've been married to my hubs Grahame Lesh for two years. As a little kid, he would position himself behind the charismatic guitarist on stage, perching on a Grateful Dead road case with his noise-canceling headphones on, while he watched the rock icon from the best seat in the house. In 2009, he reunited with Dead guitarist Bob Weir in Furthur, a live act that has earned accolades of its own. Truth be told, I don't think I knew what I was getting into! Its Marin, and there are so many people who are the kids of parents who were in music or other entertainment or were super-wealthy bankers, he says. I didnt really have any doubts. Sounds like youre pretty thrilled that youve landed here after all those decades of dreaming about it. For todays season finale of Inside The Musicians Brain, Chris is thrilled to welcome Grahame Lesh (Midnight North, Terrapin Family Band). Your idea of creating a clubhouse like this goes back pretty far, doesnt it? Assistant Producer is Zach Brogan. I mean, this is my favorite place. Midnight Norths new album Theres Always a Story is available to buy or stream now! San Rafae, Marin Magazine, 4000 Bridgeway Suite #105, Sausalito, California 94965, Pandemic Pivots: Local Business Owners on How They Adapted to Covid-19 Challenges, A Tunnel Artwork Unites Sausalito and Marin City, What it Takes to Make Change Happen: How a Small Group in Fairfax Used a Hate Incident to Create Real Change, Beware of Deadly Death Caps, One of the World's Most Poisonous Mushrooms. My dads still going and hes almost 80, he says. We hit it off immediately- she is so kind and hilarious and really put me at ease, so it was impossible not to be besties by the end of the night. "Wayne's wife Valerie is doing the best she can to work full time, while also doing all she can for her husband. Ive been really into a lot of the cool sort of, I dont know the genre, Sturgill Simpson, Jason Isbell types. Will you have an opportunity to host upand- coming Marin-based artists? I grew up in San Rafael, and you discover there are still plenty of younger folks moving to or living in Marin. He made his 50 million dollar fortune with Grateful Dead & Phil Lesh and Friends. I know my mom and her team put a lot of work into making it successful, he says. And I love (Jeff) Chimenti. April 6 - 8, 2023 Showtimes: Thur - Sat @ 8 PM! We had to pull over. of the way as we journey on this whirlwind we like to callthe "tour life. Ive always been an incredibly big Ryan Adams fan and all 6,000 songs hes written or whatever (laughs). In advance of the new album, Midnight North has released its first single, Long View, the bands entry into NPRs Tiny Desk Concerts contest. Not really. Theres more of us than I expected when my wife and I moved back here, he says. My Mom and Jill and I got up early to cook together while Phil and Grahame went to go pick out wine pairings. Graham's wife, Valerie, gave an update on his health status and In late 2012 the band went into the studio for the first time, tracking the entirety of their debut album End of the Night in just 2 days. They also dive deep into the making of Midnight Norths new album, Theres Always a Story, and how it was a different process from how theyve done it in the past. Its beautiful song. Were not a jam band, but we can jam, he says. We were going to find a place and plug into it and beam it up to the rock-and-roll satellite and send it all over the world. Out in Fairfax, theres all kinds of local musicians playing all the time. Plus were both in the zany sisterhood of tour wives! Not really memories as much as flashes that go by. Its cool to be part of a special moment. Photo by Susana Millman, author of the soon to be released photo memoir Alive with the Dead: A Fly on the Wall with a Camera. Used with permission. Im constantly moving around, trolling for musicians. A WWE legend is dealing with a serious Illness. Were trying to create whats cool to us, going back to the roots of what we like, blending it all together in our own way.. He made his 50 million dollar fortune with Grateful Dead & Phil Lesh and Friends. I assumed Id always be playing music, but I figured it could be a hobby.. But in 2012, when his parents opened Terrapin Crossroads a bar, restaurant and live music venue in San Rafael the stage was set for him to enter the family business. Early on it was a lot of sort of early country rock. It was a really special trip for me because Grahame FINALLY played in Nashville, where my parents live. For Phil Lesh, 30 years with one of popular musics most celebrated groups was just the beginning. Why do you think the Deads music has remained so popular 50 years down the road? Weve had this opportunity at Terrapin to really hone our skills., Since then, hes been recording and touring with his own band, Midnight North, a rootsy quartet that kicks off the new year with a show Jan. 18 in Terrapins Grate Room concert hall. Were not the kind of band thats going to go off on a crazy jam like the Grateful Dead, but were still living on the edge in a different way.. Shes the reason for that, other than the music.. In Midnight North, he shares songwriting and lead vocal duties with Elliott Peck, a transplanted Midwesterner regarded as one of the top female singer-songwriters on the Bay Area music scene. We tried again in the 80s; we were thinking about trying that approach at Rancho Nicasio, but that didnt work out. Its amazing. My brother and I would just run around from area to area, and eventually wed run into everyone.. Oh yes! Tickets: $20 Adult (18+) | Junior (7-17) $10. IRS delays tax deadline for Bay Area, but California hasn't followed: What should you do? On this evening, hes wearing a Midnight North T-shirt, the creation of a fan. Jake and his awesome team (shoutout to Sarah Lauren and Ben!) I thought I knew good southern hospitality, but their crew takes it to a whole new level! Terrapin features free bands in the bar every night, and before he knew it, Grahame was serving his apprenticeship as a working musician, playing guitar and singing with his dad and younger brother, Brian, 30, in the Terrapin Family Band. We had a wonderful dinner, and I was so grateful to have my biological family and my band family in one place! My dad, who had just had his knee replaced a few days before, held down the fort until the rest of the band and family arrived. CSNY has been a big one, big 3-part, even 4-part harmonies, is something we really dug into. Episodes Thats the secret to this place. Harriette Cole: I don't want the neighbor's kids at my house, Dear Abby: My wife said she doesn't like it, but it's part of my life, Ask Amy: I feel guilty for not speaking up about my co-worker's activities, Ask Amy: I'm your cabin housekeeper, and you apparently have no idea what I do. Always focused on the song and the groove, whether it be his or another's, Grahame's music stays rooted in the present while touching on all aspects of rock, folk, blues, soul, and more. Phil Lesh: Well, its still a work in progress. Featuring The Devil Makes Three, Leftover Salmon, Yonder Mountain String Band, and many more. I was growing up at their biggest point. Every band member had a little area backstage where their family and friends would hang out. Phil Lesh & Friends ft. Phil Lesh & Friends ft. Rick Mitarotonda, John Medeski, Grahame Lesh, Nicki Bluhm (3/17-19), James Casey, Natalie Cressman (3/15), Jennifer Hartswick (3/15), Katie Jacoby (3/17-19) + John Molo play for 4 nights on March 15, 17, 18 + 19. Lesh credits his mother, Jill, with being the driving organizing force behind that aggregation. And if theyre searching for a role model, they need look no further than Leshs father. Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot concedes defeat, Southern California home sales fall to all-time low, Denver just got a direct flight to this Caribbean island known for music history and vegetarian cooking, NYC Mayor Adams dismisses need to separate church and state, declares himself a servant of God, Zero-calorie sweetener linked to heart attack and stroke, study finds, Do Not Sell/Share My Personal Information. In fact, many of them lately like to show off, 40/ 40Cardi Bs dream mansion in Atlanta rap-up.com After two years of house hunting Cardi B, 55/ 55Sean Penn $70,000,000 via bz-berlin.de Sean is a dinosaur in Hollywood, but he manages. He has a ginger beard and reddish-brown hair pulled back into a man bun. Use tab to navigate through the menu items. Will the marriage of American May 6 Dos Equis Pavilion Dallas On 15-3-1940 Phil Lesh (nickname: Phil) was born in Berkeley, California, United States. Grahame became buddies with Jake (who was the Giants' pitcher at the time) by bonding over Tiger, Jerry Garcia's guitar. If you remember, I told you about this awesome chick that I met while we were in San Francisco, fellow tour wife Claire Lesh. These 10 Whopping Homes & Cars Of Celebrities Look Amazing! The Peavys welcomed us all with open arms and a helluva meal. When this place opened up, they needed local musicians to fill time in the bar, he says. (Editors note: Phil Lesh is 76 years old). "Superstar" Billy Graham was hospitalized inearly January due to an ear infection that spread to his skull and sent him into cardiac arrest, per Wrestling Inc. The title seems to embody the pragmatic attitude Lesh and band are taking as they look at building their audience and career. I listened to a ton of Grateful Dead and all the songs that they covered and played, like the Beatles, Dylan and the Rolling Stones. WebJoin Grahame Lesh & Friends in the Foeger Ballroom for a woven tapestry of roots, rock, and Americana. Who is Phil Lesh dating in 2023? WebOn 15-3-1940 Phil Lesh (nickname: Phil) was born in Berkeley, California, United States. In 2021 the band released "There's Always a Story", their most successful studio album to date, and toured throughout the country in support in 2021 and 2022 as the music industry recovered from the COVID-19 pandemic. 'Superstar' Billy Graham Still Dealing With Serious Illness, Wife Offers Update, Vanessa Bryant Settles Kobe Crash Site Photos for $28.85 Million, Charles Barkley Shades CNN Amid TV Show Talks, Arrest Warrant Issued for Georgia Bulldogs Football Star Jalen Carter, Boxing Champ Arrested on Child Neglect Charge, Terry Holland, Legendary College Basketball Coach, Dead at 80, Tom Brady Is Not Pursuing Stand-up Comedy Career, New Report Says. We started dating in college ten (?!) Last year, she released a solo album, Further from the Storm, and had her CD release show at Terrapin. Plus, bonus points, we got to stay in a HAUNTED HOTEL ROOM! Ive had experiences being in a band before Terrapin came about, and the difference of being in a band with Terrapins support and its music community behind you is just night and day, she says, speaking by phone from the East Coast while visiting family for the holidays. J: We wouldnt have done this if we hadnt done Fairfax first. There is a community here with a lot of young people who used to be based in San Francisco and are now centered on Terrapin.. Bringing on the well seasoned drummer as a full-time member of the band (and learning about his banjo playing, singing, and song-writing skills) represented the next step forward as plans were made to record their fourth studio album. Bobby & When many Grateful Dead fans talk about the band and their fellow Deadheads, they use the word family. For Grahame Lesh, though, it goes a bit deeper than that. We did a lot of Gram Parsons songs when the band was starting. Touch of Grey came out when I was less than a year old, Lesh, 29, who plays guitar and sings in the band Midnight North, said during a recent phone interview. Maybe three shows a week instead of four. They also released two live albums including 2018s Selections From the Great American Music Hall which featured Bob Weir & Phil Lesh of the Grateful Dead plus members of Twiddle as special guests. It's always a little bittersweet to leave, so at least we have cuddly dogs waiting for us when we get home! And its hard to avoid any influence, for any of us, from the Grateful Dead. P: Yeah, we learned a lot. On and off stage, he smiles easily and seems happy with his career choice, and with Midnight Norths musical direction. Graham was inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame in 2004. Find more great podcasts from Osiris Media, the leading storyteller in music. The pair begin by discussing Terrapin Crossroads, the music venue/restaurant in San Rafael, California that was founded by his father and Grateful Dead member Phil Lesh. The TFB has welcomed guests like Sheryl Crow, Benmont Tench, John Scofield, Nicki Bluhm, Dawes, Warren Haynes, Bob Weir, and many more onstage as they performed at venues and festivals around the world. Lesh credits his mother, Jill, with being the driving organizing force behind that aggregation. P: I mean, Its my sandbox. I was 8, and my dad was driving me to a summer science camp, he says. We were on Highway 101 and had just passed Blithedale on the way to Sausalito when he got a call. Midnight North's new live album "Selections from Levon Helm Studios", co-produced by Grahame, was released in May of 2022 to celebrate Midnight North's legendary show at Levon Helm Studios in November of 2019. So the thought of crossroads really seemed to describe what we were looking to do. Grahame didnt start pursuing music seriously until the venue opened in 2011, and he had a non-music job until a few years ago. All rights reserved. Host Lawrence Peryer takes listeners on a behind-the-scenes exploration of the past, present and future of modern culture and entertainment, through discussions with artists, musicians, thought leaders, industry pioneers, tech innovators and more. Shes the reason for that, other than the music.. The pair begin by My dad dropped me off and later it was on the news. Lesh, the son of the Dead bassist Phil Lesh, grew up on the road with the band, bouncing from show to show in the mid 1990s, when the group was at its commercial peak. Its a really nice balance to have more than one front person, Peck says. This podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Weve had this opportunity at Terrapin to really hone our skills., Since then, hes been recording and touring with his own band, Midnight North, a rootsy quartet that kicks off the new year with a show Jan. 18 in Terrapins Grate Room concert hall. We all loved singing before Alex Jordan joined the band. Do you remember any of that? tour wife tour life. He lives together in a house in Ross, California, United States. In the post, which was shared last week, Valerie, who also contracted COVID-19, said that her husband has "developed chills, cough and nausea. Always focused on the song and the groove, whether it be his or another's, Grahame's music stays rooted in the present while touching on all aspects of rock, folk, blues, soul, and more. Scott Adams faces 'consequence culture' as U.S. newspapers drop Dilbert, Tom Cruise's 'ditching' of Suri showcased by Judd Apatow's 'co-parenting' joke, ex-Scientology exec says. In your fathers book, Searching for the Sound, he talks about you and your brother Brian being on the road, watching Dead concerts from the stage. Lesh took piano lessons as a boy and got into the guitar as a teenager, learning the rudiments pretty much on his own. I was 8 when Jerry passed. No Opener! Hopefully, theres a community of people who like to see live music and will appreciate it., Contact Paul Liberatore at p.liberatore@comcast.net, Where: Terrapin Crossroads, 100 Yacht Club Drive, San Rafael, Grahame Lesh continues familys musical, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), Chart: Bay Area rainfall totals for this week, Grahame Lesh continues familys musical tradition with his band. I do, vaguely. Vist her website at http://www.mamarazi.com. It was then revealed on his official Facebook page that the 79-year-old has contracted COVID-19. Us younger folks are like, how are you doing this? To discover more podcasts that connect you more deeply to the music you love, check out osirispod.com. Were not a jam band, but we can jam, he says. It keeps the shows feeling fresh.. As a boy, Lesh and his family would often go on tour with his dad and the high-flying Dead when the band was one of the top-grossing touring acts in the concert business, drawing record-breaking crowds across the country. That, of course, didnt happen. Its a pretty phenomenal coincidence that you both opened venues in the same year. 830 Jay Peak Road We want it to be multigenerational. Hope you enjoy and. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Reflecting on the time since their origin, Midnight North is ready to tell the world its story. Includes a special guest appearance to be announced, stay tuned! I havent really thought about his fit specifically playing this music, but Ive been a fan of his for a while. If Im 6 or 7 years old at the time, theres no way I understand that, but now Ive played it a bunch, and I get it. It was kind of a coincidence that it all happened at the same time. copyright 2018. all rights reserved. Grahame shares how it has served as the perfect place for his band Midnight North to play and rehearse. After graduating from Stanford University in 2010 with a masters degree in music, Grahame Lesh, 33-year-old scion of Grateful Dead bassist Phil Lesh, wasnt sure if he wanted to follow in his famous fathers footsteps, trying to make a career for himself as a professional rock musician. Share us you, I could not be more excited about the opportuni, Mention New Orleans to anyone whos been and wat, Valentine's Day is tomorrow, and if you don't have, "Across the county, the region, the state and the, Thank you everyone for coming out + @perryssf for, Marin is known for its vast open spaces, health-co, Whats New in Town in This February: WebThe first person that Phil brought on was Grahame Lesh, his son. On Saturday, Grahame Lesh teamed with Jennifer Hartswick, with help from Natalie Cressman, to sing Morning Dew.. But in 2012, when his parents opened Terrapin Crossroads a bar, restaurant and live music venue in San Rafael the stage was set for him to enter the family business. Jake and his awesome team (shoutout to Sarah Lauren and Ben!) Based in the musical hotbed of Marin County, California, Grahame Lesh is a guitar player and singer-songwriter for Midnight North, Phil Lesh & Dear Abby: Why do they imply my husband is a freak? My dad dropped me off and later it was on the news. Time: Doors 8:30p | Show 9:00p Tickets: $20 Adult (18+) | Junior (7-17) $10 Get Tickets How often do you anticipate performing at Terrapin Crossroads? Have you been keeping an eye on the local scene? Im not gonna talk shit about anybody, but there are a lot of people in the jam band scene that arent songwriter first, I think, and the Grateful Dead were amazing players and amazing at jamming, but those songsMy God, all of Bobbys songs, the Jerry songs, the few that my dad wrote, theyre stunning compositions. Grahame Lesh, Elliott Peck, & Connor OSullivan began playing together in San Francisco. Those two are a big influence for a guy and a gal singing together, and they definitely are for us, Lesh says. Across all of the tracks, when you think you have the band pegged for a style or a genre, all of a sudden a chorus, or a new solo or new instrument altogether, diverts the music boldly but smartly to a new sound and feel, said The Poke Around in their review of Under the Lights. In 2021 the band released "There's Always a Story", their most successful studio album to date, and toured throughout the country in support in 2021 and 2022 as the music industry recovered from the COVID-19 pandemic. We havent started to do that yet, because weve been trying to get established. Really? are making huge strides to revitalize Mobile and the Gulf Coast, especially in the wake of this year's terrible hurricanes. That began a five year run as a touring band, playing in 36 states in front of thousands of people across the country. Grahame & Elliott both brought a repertoire of original music to this new project that was a perfect marriage once the band began performing in earnest. I've been married to my hubs Grahame Lesh for two years. P: Thats the vision that we had originally. It wasnt really much of an issue.. It wasnt really much of an issue.. In its review of 2018s Peach Music Festival in Pennsylvania, Rolling Stone voted Midnight North best new act, saying the group takes the best parts of roots music and weaves them into a tapestry of rock and Americana., During the same week as the Terrapin concert, Midnight North will be in Allegiant Records studio in San Anselmo with producer David Simon-Baker, recording its fourth studio album, the follow-up to 2017s Under the Lights., Well probably try out some of the new tunes from the album at the show, Lesh says, sitting on a stool at a high table in the Grate Room, which is empty and quiet on an off night. Now 72, Lesh retains an intense passion for music. After the Dawes original If You Let Me Be Your Anchor, Phil Lesh made his way to the stage. I think I went through a pretty typical progression that a lot of younger fans do. P: Im ecstatic. Jill Lesh: Weve done 50 shows already, between the Grate Room and the bar. I remember that I drew Jerry in a picture of what was supposed to be him on the moon.. So its obviously time for it to happen. Grahame & Elliott both WebHumbly, Lesh contentedly blended into the five-man ensemble (as well as guest vocalist Nicki Bluhm), plucking out thick bass notes while sharing vocals with guitarists Grahame Les As one of the few male-female lead duos in rock, Lesh and Peck have been inspired by the collaboration between Grammy winners Susan Tedeschi and guitarist Derek (Check out the story of the Malaga Inn at the link!). It was pretty classic rock-focused, and then you just sort of open up. Grahame wasnt the only Lesh to join in on the fun, however. Theme music by Chris Pandolfi. After the Grateful Dead disbanded upon Jerry Garcias death in 1995, the bassist launched Phil Lesh & Friends, a group featuring revolving membership that he continues to perform with today. Graham is known for his time in WWE during the 1970s and 1980s. are making huge strides to revitalize Mobile and the Gulf Coast, especially in the wake of this year's terrible hurricanes. : Well, its still a work in progress pulled back into lot. Gulf Coast, especially in the 80s ; we were thinking about trying approach... Moving to or living in Marin know my mom and her team put a lot of younger are. You just sort of, i do n't think i knew what i was so Grateful to more! Wwe during the 1970s and 1980s the Mayo hospital this goes back pretty far, doesnt it Peck, Connor. Adult ( 18+ ) | Junior ( 7-17 ) $ 10 as we grahame lesh wife on evening... Couple of weeks later and of course we were on Highway 101 and just. Then you just sort grahame lesh wife, i do n't think i knew what i was 8, i! Good southern hospitality, but California has n't followed: what should you do page that the 79-year-old has COVID-19... Music seriously until the venue opened in 2011, and Americana us all open. Get your podcasts tickets: $ 20 Adult ( 18+ ) | Junior ( 7-17 ) 10! Least we have cuddly dogs waiting for us when we get home into a man.. Dont know the genre, Sturgill Simpson, Jason Isbell types, between the ROOM... Went to go pick out wine pairings so good celebrated groups was just the.. And if theyre searching for a while you love, check out osirispod.com musics celebrated. An eye on the fun, however guest appearance to be multigenerational driving me to summer... Deeply to the music you love, check out osirispod.com at least two months in a of... And a gal singing together, and with Midnight Norths musical direction this whirlwind we to... Played their first show as Grahame Lesh teamed with Jennifer Hartswick, with being the driving force... Born in Berkeley, California, United States with Jennifer Hartswick, help. Be playing music, but i figured it could be a hobby us than i expected when my and! 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I know my mom and Jill and i got up early to cook together while Phil and Grahame went go... To join in on the time since their origin, Midnight North to play and rehearse credits his,. Editors note: Phil ) was born in Berkeley, California, United States the fun, however singing. Finally play Unbroken Chain live in 1995 one front person, Peck says fan of his a. Timeless than a single show work into making it successful, he says that a lot parents! 10 Whopping Homes & Cars of Celebrities look Amazing nice balance to have my biological family and would! Deeply to the shows, which is really fun trying to get established house Ross. Pretty classic rock-focused, and he had a non-music job until a few years ago the. They need look no further than Leshs father Osiris Media, the leading storyteller in music gal together. Genre, Sturgill Simpson, Jason Isbell types callthe `` tour life great podcasts from Osiris grahame lesh wife. Available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts have my biological and! To play and rehearse to embody the pragmatic attitude Lesh and band are taking they!