A potential buyer of a home with polybutylene pipes would need to have the experience to look at the property and understand the problem. VA inspectors are also required to report even the smallest amount of evidence of dry rot, termite or . No, it is no longer produced. If polybutylene pipes had to be disclosed to me when I was getting an inspection on a home but sellers said No Representation. Do you have to disclose polybutylene pipes to a homebuyer? Replacing polybutylene pipes should include the exterior connections to your water supply. In some states, the seller must disclose polybutylene pipes as a material defect in the residential property disclosure form. We've done many repipes, when insurance companies required it, as a condition of policy renewal or issuance. Most of our repipes fall somewhere between $4,500 and $15,000. I did find out that if you're on city water the polybutylene problems can be even worse because chlorine in the municipal water will degrade the pipes even quicker. I started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better understand the home inspection process and answer questions about homeownership and home maintenance. Unfortunately, if you still have poly plumbing, and did not participate in prior polybutylene class-actions, your legal options are likely very limited. They buy houses for cash so that they dont depend on a lenders approval of their loan, unlike most buyers. We're first time home buyers trying to trust our Realtor so if we got taken then I guess some people should subtract their votes of agreement with totally_unique_name above in the top comment complaining that the sub is full of people thinking they've been taken. A buyers mortgage lender will possibly require more extensive inspections that hold up your closing. I've got it! So, you can sell your house relatively fast and quickly to these investors, as they do not rely on appraisers, lenders, or any other kind of third-party inspectors. Check for a gray plastic pipe under sinks or in exposed areas in the basement or attic. However, you cant repair polybutylene pipes because these pipes production ceased quite a long time ago. Repiping the interior of your home will cost between $1,500 to $8,000 for Pex or CPVC pipes, and from $2,500 to $15,000 for copper. If the Seller wants to ignore the poly issue, ask them to sign a Release Agreement, indemnifying you of all potential liability. Home inspectors wont do that. Suppose youve just bought a house or rented one, and after some inspection, you find out that the housing has polybutylene pipes. What causes a gurgling sound when a bathtub or sink drains? You will have to spend a lot of time, money, and energy trying to repair the pipes. Our passion for perfection continues to serve our customers year after year. Your contractor should talk to you about whether its possible to leave the existing pipes in place and re-route the water through the new pipes. Over time, laws related to consumer protection are getting stricter in the US. It's money well spent if it saves you a $20,000 bill. We never would have ordered any of these inspections, appraisals, etc. Seriously. Trying to figure out what we want to do as well, seems like the options are walk, negotiate it into the repairs, or save to do it in the future :/. You should understand that repiping in copper, or copper and CPVC is going to be expensive, and estimates are going to vary, so taking off a large chunk of the purchase price of a home may not cover the expense or the hassle. What they do is they buy the property, which they can upgrade, make the required repairs, and then sell the homes making good profits on their investments. Sunday, March 22, 2020 Any defect of a home that materially affects the value or livability of a house must be included in the seller's disclosure form, if known. In the meantime, leaks and water damage can result in mold growth and unhealthy conditions in your home. One of the most important things you will need to do before buying a house with polybutylene pipes and get a licensed plumber is to look at the home and the houses entire plumbing system. 3. Is a washing machine drain hose required to be secured at the standpipe? Builders responded by updatingPB piping systems in 1983. Then choose the best offer and quickly close on your home within a couple of weeks, skipping the inconveniences and upfront expenses of a traditional real estate sale. . Any other advice about this issue and how to handle it? Because polybutylene pipes will fail, it's just a matter of when it will happen. How does repiping a house work? The contractor should also be responsible for obtaining any permits that are required in your area. If we compare these two options, the first one is very clearly the better and more feasible option for you as a seller because, in this case, you would turn the entire problem over to the buyer and walk away. Interview several and check their references. You can sell your house fast and for cash to an investor. It was particularly widely used in the sunbelt states. Check our price for ateam inspection by two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors. However, copper pipes are exceptionally durable and, thus, will last a long time if you use these to replace fragile polybutylene pipes. However, other options are available, such as CPVC pipes and copper pipes. The insurance agent gave me the quote without the pipe information and it was way too high so I forgot about the pipe question until now. Your first polybutylene leak can happen at any time, even if you've had years of leak-free experience. Even though the information on this web page is provided by a qualified industry expert, it should not be considered as legal, tax, financial or investment advice. Sellers must also disclose polybutylene pipes to buyers when they sell their home. However, these small leaks will eventually deteriorate the area surrounding them and, over time, will cause a great deal of damage regardless of the size of the leakage. Polybutylene (PB) piping was standard in homes built between 1978 and 1996. These minerals are a primary reason that contributes to the deterioration of the polybutylene pipes. All I can really say is good luck! We also havespecial financing options available. Not sure a home has poly? Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? What are the pipes sticking out near my water valves? IANAL but, I doubt you have a case to get your inspection $$$ back. The uncertainty surrounding your homes plumbing will easily push it off of their list. Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable? Now four years later in the inspection report from my buyer a more dramatic statement is made: "Polyethylene Plumbing Supply Lines have been known to to be randomly defective and can rapture without notice" and the buyer wants me to replace the Polybutylene Pipes in the condo. This does not include any repairs for water damage or mold. The presence of polybutylene pipes creates uncertainty for potential homebuyers. Our expertise shows in every repipe we do and is with you every step of the way. landlords The second option would be to fix the issue related to the polybutylene pipes yourself and then put your home on the market. In short -it didn't work. Many of them specifically require you to disclose whether or not you are aware of polybutylene piping on your property. We figured people in the business would know this stuff so we didn't go into detail. What is the difference between PVC and ABS plumbing pipe? In the case of polybutylene pipes, the 70% failure rate is what matters. If you find a vendor who was previously in the house and alerted them to the fact that the pipes needed to be replaced you have proof. If you're still not sure, call us. Polybutylene pipes would qualify as a material defect. In reality, getting polybutylene pipes replaced does not cost more than, for example, recarpeting your home would cost you. This information being, whether or not the seller has polybutylene pipes in their homes plumbing system. Since there is such great money in the polybutylene pipe scheming game, they're probably all in it together! But, of course, there are expensive ones and relatively cheaper ones as well. In 2017, a new polybutylene class-action was filed with Hurt v. Shell Oil, which attempted to include homeowners left out in the prior 1995 settlement. The damage caused by a polybutylene leak can easily exceed the costs of a whole-home repipe; without even counting the costs of successive plumbing repairs. If you have time to sell but you dont have the funds to make the needed repairs, you will probably want to consider selling to an investor. This option is much better than repairing the old pipes because the polybutylene pipes would not last a long time anyway. You're correct that this makes the house harder to sell, and ultimately reduces the value if not re piped. I guess she could have forgotten about it, but what if she asked the seller and found out and then never said anything? "When I work with a seller in a neighborhood that I know has polybutylene, we always have to check before putting the house on the market," Willard adds. PEX pipes are so popular and better than polybutylene pipes and even other competitive pipes such as PVC and Copper pipes because they are incredibly durable. Also the appraisal, bank fees, attorney fees, due diligence and earnest money. The tubing is typically 1/2" to 1" in diameter and is flexible. What kind of inspections are you having done? You need to make sure that youre working with an investor who is experienced in buying homes like yours. "Don't worry about it" would be my last dealings with her as a realtor. Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable? Poly pipe failures can also be catastrophic, as opposed to a slow leak. house Any other advice about this issue and how to handle it? Now, the problem isnt that polybutylene pipes fail; the problem is that they fail more than any other type of plumbing. Buyers, when faced with a home with polybutylene piping have the choice of the following: Polybutylene pipes are no longer recognized by building codes not only in South Florida, but throughout the United States and Canada. Click here for more information. Here at Repipe Specialists, ourrepiping services utilize only made-in-the-USA high quality copper (Grade L) or Uponor PEX tubing. Home inspectors often detect polybutylene plumbing lines, but they are not generally required to report it, and so it may go unaddressed. However, in mid-1966, manufacturers ceased production due to allegations claiming that polybutylene pipe failures caused property damage. In prior litigation, the industry behind polybutylene plumbing systems claimed failures were not due to the polybutylene tubing itself, but instead due to installation issues and inappropriate pipe connectors. Replacing your exterior water supply connections can cost from $600 to $2,400. This reaction causes the pipes to become weaker and more prone to breaking. 14 Facts You DO NOT need to disclose when selling your home in North Carolina: If your home has polybutylene pipes. Once youve confirmed that you have polybutylene pipes that need replacing, you need to select the right contractor for the job. loan Polybutylene piping (PB) was once popular for its cost-effectiveness, easy installation, and flexibility. Even though polybutylene pipes are safe for drinking water, they will fail over time. The average cost to replumb a house will vary between $5,000 to $7,000. However, many things have to be considered before investing in the house when you find your dream house. Learn about them in the next section of this article. 16822 SE 92nd Danna Avenue, The Villages, FL 32162, www.thevillagesbestinspector.com Comments or questions tomcgarryandmadsen@mac.com, While we hope you find this series of articles about home inspection helpful, they should not be considered an alternative to an actual home inspection by a local inspector. This allowed "jointless" layouts. Our home inspection report just came back and it says the 1990 house has polybutylene pipes. Depending on your market and the condition of your property, they may not offer you full market value for your home. Joined: Jun 2012. How far should stair nosing stick out? What is a "combination waste and vent" in a plumbing system? If you are purchasing a home, you likely have some homeowner insurance covering the houses cost of damages. However, polybutylene pipes have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the public water supply. Copper pipes cost a little more than PEX pipes, and the price ranges between $2.50 and $3.50 per linear foot. With new flex line water-supply tubes and push-on valves, you can change the water-supply lines to a toilet or faucet in minutes. So it is better, and we highly recommend getting them replaced and ensuring that you do not have to deal with tricky situations of damaged old pipes leading to leakages and damage to your home. There are words that strike dread into the heart of a real estate agent and one of them is polybutylene. More information about the settlement is available at www.SpencerClass.com , phone 800/490-6997, plus an information packet is available by writing to . Polybutylene is the name of the polymer that the actual pipes are made from. All Rights Reserved. However, there are two ways you can sell your home in situations like this. How can I tell what type of plumbing pipe I have? Heres links to a collection of our other blog posts about PLUMBING PIPES: How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? Generally speaking however, we know insurance coverage for homes with poly piping has been a headache for many homeowners. What you are complaining about is the process working. No older house will come without issues and I hate to think of the poor seller being sued 5 years later because you found some asbestos tiles in the basement or a bad wiring job in the bedroom that weren't on the disclosure. I think you are correct to worry about it, and if she has those pipes in her house she's in denial that it won't impact her ability to sell at some point or cause her expensive repairs. I emailed our Realtor and she never responded. Facts vs. Fiction 8. (They've lived in the home since 1990 and the husband has done a lot of DIY work in the home so it's unlikely he didn't know about the PB piping). PEX pipes last a very long time, and over the years, people have faced little to no issues with these pipes becoming fragile, breaking, and leaking. Polybutylene pipe is a gray plastic tubing that was commonly used as a water-supply plumbing pipe between 1978 and 1995, at which time it was discontinued due to reports of pipes rupturing. So, if you're absolutely in love with a home with polybutylene piping, have your real estate agent ask the seller to either . Can I Sell My House with a Property, State or IRS Tax Lien? The problem is difficult to diagnose, since even if the pipes look all right from the outside, they are deteriorating from the inside youd never know there was a problem until all of a sudden theres a major one. Polybutylene is also not the same as plastic ABS piping commonly used in drain and sewer piping. Locating and working on existing pipes requires cutting holes in your walls. Unless this house is the house of your dreams and no other house will do, you may be better off looking elsewhere. B. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? Polybutylene pipes were first produced in the mid-1970s. Why is polybutylene piping bad? How can I tell if I have cast iron pipes in my house? This website is managed by 411 Locals and has been temporarily removed. You can, however, replace the polybutylene pipes with PEX piping. High Desert . However, being a seller, you should disclose all the necessary information about the house, including polybutylene pipes. What are the abandoned pipes sticking out of the wall in my house? One of the most important things that need to be considered is the plumbing within the house. What causes a gurgling sound when a bathtub or sink drains? See our blog posts What does polybutylene pipe look like? A frequent by-product of the water damage was mold. Secondly, they would need to be financially able to buy the house and then make the necessary repairs. Polybutylene is also no longer an approved plumbing material for potable water systems in building codes across the US. When youre looking at a home, look for the typical gray polybutylene pipes in places around the washing machine, under sinks, and in crawl spaces or basements.