DUI arrests don't always lead to convictions in court. I was supposed to edit some documents for them which I did. However I don't think those people exist in a registry. The only exemption is when your kids reside in the given relatives address. Address Fraud: It is also address fraud, is it not, when a person not living at an address, posts his/her name to another person's residential address? But in Berkeley, district officials say they work hard to make sure that parents who can rightfully enroll their children are not too intimidated to do so. California straw buyer schemeswreak havoc on those deemed the straws. In simple terms, foreclosure fraud takes place when a personoften a self-proclaimed foreclosure consultantrepresents that he/she can postpone or prevent a pending foreclosure. Californias real estate and mortgage fraud lawspunish any deliberate false representation that is made in connection with any portion of a real estate transaction. There are several ways to commit address fraud, and it is considered a crime in most jurisdictions. The legal drinking age in California is 21. The act of using a person's personal identifying information without their consent is punishable by Section 530.5, subdivision (a). This penalizes any unlicensed contractor who posts advertising and does not state in the ad that they are unlicensed. For example, a student attended Payton High School for four years enrolled with a fake apartment address. Some of the most common types of fraud offenses that fall under these categories are listed below. Instead, leave any cards that you find with local police or at the bank or credit card company that issued the cards. Californias unemployment insurance fraud lawsprohibit intentional attempts to increase, reduce or deny an unemployment insurance benefit. Examples include (but are not limited to): You violateCalifornias welfare fraud laws (10980 WIC) when you try to obtain or increase welfare benefits to which you are not legally entitled. I didn't send them any money and went to my bank and the police. Law against forging or counterfeiting a drivers license or ID card, 5. Yes, I would concur in the answer provided by Mr. Garner. It does not hire private investigators, make late-night bed checks, lodge fines or threaten to call the district attorneys office, all common practices in other parts of the state and in some of the other top-performing school districts it borders. The Hechinger Report provides in-depth, fact-based, unbiased reporting on education that is free to all readers. But is this legal? If the school district can prove that you intentionally did this in order to enhance your child's availability for perks and better amenities, they could report you to the authorities and terminate your child's enrollment at the school. Karen Chapple, a professor of city and regional planning at the University of California at Berkeley, says these newcomers often arrive with a different ethos, at least at first. More specifically Glendale Unified School District. This kind of fraud is a felony is some states in states like Pennsylvania, Illinois, Oklahoma, and Michigan. Banks often wont reimburse you if someone drains your account at an ATM after you give them permission to use your card or the PIN. But when Berkeleyside, a local alternative weekly, posted an article about the districts enrollment issues, last April, the comments section was inundated with enraged posters. While fines can help deter address fraud attempts, manually verifying addresses requires a ton of resources. Louisiana Notaries have different powers and duties from Notaries in other states under Louisiana's unique civil law code. Theres no guarantee that someone will only use the card for expenses you intended to pay. Is lying about your address for school Illegal? Some stipulate that you authorize someone else to use your card simply by lending your card or making the account number available to someone else. Khadija Khartit is a strategy, investment, and funding expert, and an educator of fintech and strategic finance in top universities. The school districts unspoken philosophy that outsiders, particularly ones with poor options elsewhere, ought to be let in, when possible may be shifting, as parents who might have been minimally concerned in the past are questioning if the school district is being vigilant enough in its monitoring process. I answered an online job ad and got "hired". Illinois still have a law that stipulates 30 days imprisonment and a fine of up to $1,500 More generally, you commit this type of fraud anytime you engage in a fraudulent activity that has to do with a foreclosed home or a home that is involved in the foreclosure process. 8 U.S. Code 1324c - Penalties for document fraud . According to the state education department, in 2013, 85.5 percent of the citys high school students graduated within four years, compared to 80.4 percent statewide. Insurers use public records to verify addresses. And with school enrollment becoming increasingly competitive, there's a growing trend of parents committing school enrollment fraud to beat the system. Visit our California DUI page to learn more. And if you violate this law by forging a public seal on a document that lends you someone elses identity, you violate identity theft law as well. Having a Fake ID Getting caught with a fake ID is one of the most common ID offenses. Unlicensed contractors are allowed to advertise for jobs under $500, but still must state that they are unlicensed, otherwise, if caught, they may face a fine from $700 to $1,000. Hefty fines and student expulsions, on the other hand, are quite common punishments. Identifying inaccurate information is a challenge when assessing paper documents. Dina Tasini, the mother of a freshman at Berkeley High School, says she believes district fraud is widespread. receiving kickbacks for prescribing certain drugs. There are also a number of fraud offenses that are automatic felonies. See, for example. 1. 3. Thats the worst that can happen. California Penal Code 470b PC. (1) In general. Whoever engages in any conduct with intent to convey false or misleading information under circumstances where such information may reasonably be believed and where such information indicates that an activity has taken, is taking, or will take place that would constitute a violation of chapter 2, 10, 11B, 39, 40, 44, 111, or 113B of this title, section 236 of the Atomic . And the district wide graduation rate was also above the state average. Code Ann. One way to prevent unauthorized use on your card is to avoid making your card available to someone else on an as-needed basis. Most issuers require you to make an effort to avoid unauthorized use of the card, which is the use of your debit or credit card without your permission. This type of fraud can include acts such as. But it is best to use your address of residence. To provide an address that is not yours is a fraud. 0 found this answer helpful | 0 lawyers agree. Examples of this type of fraud include (but are not limited to): Real estate and mortgage fraud laws punish any deliberate false representation that is made in connection with any portion of a real estate transaction. rent a property that you dont own or have the authority to rent and collect the rent for your own use. Concessionary Travel passes are issued to older or qualifying disabled people. Merchants risk a chargeback,a disputed charge made to the card issuer that can result in the loss of revenue, if the authorized cardholder is unaware of and later finds out about a card purchase. When you lie about where you live and submit false proof of residency documents, you may be committing felony records tampering. There are several other motivations for committing address fraud. But if they don't give you permission, it's fraud - and that is a crime. When you lie about your address for school, you may not be directly taken into custody. charging for medical services that were not provided. Offenders have had their placards confiscated and they face fines ranging from $250 to $1,000, with some cities issuing fines of more than $1,000. TermsPrivacyDisclaimerCookiesDo Not Sell My Information, Begin typing to search, use arrow keys to navigate, use enter to select, Please enter a legal issue and/or a location, (city, Address Authenticator helps you track student movements and validate current data so you can catch address fraud faster. They might, however, also use a false location as a warehouse or portray a residential address as a business location by using a mail drop instead of a post office box number. See 53 A.L.R.Fed. If youve been debating whether to invest in a digital solution to assist your staff in identifying falsified addresses, heres what you need to know. We will never publish your email address. Under the California Penal Code, possessing or displaying a fake ID is known as a "wobbler.". One of the challenges that public schools face is ensuring that all enrolled students register with legitimate addresses. Alabama Judicial System. Stay up-to-date with how the law affects your life. Like for instance an Ohio woman in 2011, had to provide false address so that her child could school in another district, she was sentence to 10 years imprisonment you can follow up the case here. We live 1 block from a school which does not accept any other 3rd graders because they are full and thus my daughter needs to attend another school which is at the border of the city extremely frustrating and inconvenient. The Supreme Court upheld Browder's conviction under 18 U.S.C. If you used someone else's copyrighted material and commercially profited from that use, you may have to pay him monetary damages, and court may prohibit you from further . Other states like Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma offenders could be imprisoned for 20 days, 1 year respectively with fines. Capital One. Parents or legal guardians are made to show proof that the address they supplied to the school are correct not just at the time of registration but each year. Can I prosecute them for address fraud? No more of this crap where people hide behind bushes if they see police and ICE. The mom was convicted of felony records tampering. There is no need to lie about your kids residency. Principal Karissa Lang . How about lying about where you live. Examples of the types of schemes that frequently qualify as financial elder abuse include (but are not limited to): Like elder abuse, nursing home abuse can be physical, emotional or financial. using someone elses name to obtain welfare benefitswhich is also a violation of welfare laws. Another option is to implement an address purifying tool like the LINQ Address Authenticator. In addition, schools that use paper forms for enrollment are having trouble confirming accurate addresses. The really stupid thing is, when the police arrive at her old address, where she was evicted, in order to issue a summons, they will find out real quick she was evicted and doesn't live there and that the address is fraudulent. Berkeleys population has risen from 102,743 in 2000 to 116,768 in 2013, according to the United States Census Bureau. PC 476; PC 484e; PC 484f; PC 484g; PC 484h; PC 484i; PC 484j; Corporations Code 25540. Computer fraud, codified by 18 U.S. Code 1030, is similar to wire fraud, except this crime applies only to use of computers, as opposed to telephones and radios. If you know of anyone doing this, tell us and we will kick them out of the school. In 2013, the percentage of Berkeley High School students scoring at or above grade level on Californias math and reading exams exceeded the state average. Parents have fought hard to keep elementary school class sizes low, aiming for a 20-student cap from kindergarten to third grade.). This means that if, for example, you. How welcoming is too welcoming? Penalties for felony offenses, as prescribed by law, may be imposed in addition to the county jail sentence. Frequently, criminals commit address fraud simply to hide their whereabouts from law enforcement officials. Please note, there might be few exceptions especially if you are over 18 and not depending on your parents or grandparents. Employers have certain responsibilities under immigration law during the hiring process. failing to disclose a prior injury that would be relevant to your current claim. Send us your information, and we'll reach out to you as soon as possible. Get important education news and analysis delivered straight to your inbox. You violateCalifornias elder abuse lawswhen you emotionally, physically or financially abuse an elderthat is, a person 65 years or older. California phantom help schemes are specifically prohibited under foreclosure fraud law. A third-degree felony is punishable with. produce a counterfeit one or sign someone else's name during a transaction without their consent, . 50 percent of eligible Ohioans have been vaccinated The DOJ said that misrepresenting the official seal of a U.S. agency, like the CDC logo on the vaccine cards, could be a violation of federal. Related: In shadow of March on Washington schools increasingly segregated in California. See all online services. I got something in by mailbox from someone insisting they are residents of my home. Bank of America. When you lie about your address to your school, you will possibly violate the requirements of the school. Its because Berkeley is in transition that it is becoming more of an issue, she said. Depending on the severity of the crime, the legal penalties can include fines and imprisonment. But district officials challenged the residency of her girls in 2007, when they were 9 and 13 years old. Blog, Personal Legal. An example is when your IRS mailing address looks different. Berkeleys population boom is a relatively new phenomenon. One Ohio mother learned that the hard way when she was convicted of lying about her residency to get her daughters into a safer school district, reports the Richmond Times-Dispatch. Likewise, credit card companies hold you responsible for charges by someone whom you permit to use the card. EMS LINQ, Inc. All rights reserved, How K-12 Learning Analytics Can Help Students Succeed LINQ, 7 Great Ways to Show Your Employees Appreciation, Unpaid Meal Debt: How to Address the Elephant in the K-12 Lunchroom. The proposed policy would make it perjury to use a false address, though it would be up to the Broward State Attorney's Office to prosecute the crime. However, the law applies only to computers used: by or for financial institutions, like banks or the U.S. government, and In one fourth-grade classroom brimming with fossil displays, book reports, and a sign that read: Determine What Is Right, Instead of Who Is Right students gathered on a corner carpet by a series of windows and chatted with their teacher about baseball ethics as he read to them an article from The San Francisco Chronicle sports pages. collecting benefits in two or more states, and. Definition and Elements of the Crime. By continuing to use this website, you consent to our usage of cookies and similar technologies, in accordance with our cookie policy. 3d 529. the desire to escape criminal culpability. Address fraud and identity theft are associated with several other types of crimes, and they are punishable according to a particular jurisdictions laws. As humans we may have been around for a while, but one thing that seems to have not ended, is fraud. Of course, you are free to permit your friend to reside with you so that her child can attend that school. Often referred to as white-collar crimes, these fraud offenses can subject you to high fines and significant jail or prison sentences. Today we will be discussing address fraud; a growing plague that is the leading contributing factor responsible for mail theft. The server responded with {{status_text}} (code {{status_code}}). It doesnt matter what you intend to use the cards forif you cant prove that you have permission, problems may be afoot. using your own credit/debit card knowing that the card is expired or has been revoked. I may do a background check to make sure they are people, to see if they're really registered as Americans. Using someone else's address for car insurance is illegal. Credit and debit cards are useful tools for payments. "Credit Card Fraud: What to Do If Youre a Victim.". Identity theft is when someone wrongfully obtains a person's personal information and uses it to commit fraud or other illegal activity. ", Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Section 141 also describes a wide range of penalties upon conviction of these crimes, which include fines ranging from $500 to $10,000, imprisonment or both. "Scams and Safety. Section 1543 proscribes the forgery, alteration, etc., of passports or the use of or furnishing to another of a forged, altered, void, etc., passport or purported passport. And district officials insist that they are not lax on perpetrators. reveal that intent by representing the check to be genuine. Berkeley was one of the first school districts in the country to desegregate and it did so voluntarily. Criminal penalties are provided for: (1)knowingly and willfully using a social security number that was obtained with false information, (2) using someone else's social security number, or (3) unlawfully disclosing or compelling the disclosure of someone else's social security number. It doesnt matter whether a parents has good intentions for their children, using an invalid address is fraud. How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission? Some districts have schedules of fines on the books for parents who have been found to be lying. Answered on Mar 27th, 2013 at 1:51 PM. Once approved, the perpetrator can incur debt in another persons name and not have to pay the charges. Notify me by email when the comment gets approved. Cheating and lying to get your child into a particular school sets a really bad example and the consequences will be immediate and affect your child significantly when you're caught. Lending out your card is risky even when your cardholder agreement permits it. We are experiencing the same type if issue in Glendale California. Related: California schools need funding road map. Covering Innovation & Inequality in Education. Lying about your address for school isnt considered illegal. Attorney & Counsellor at Law. But that's just me. Some site a study by a former graduate student at the Goldman School of Public Policy, University of California at Berkeley, who was then seeking a Master in Public Policy degree. Terms of Service apply. California has one of nations highest gaps in Hispanic white reading proficiency, In shadow of March on Washington schools increasingly segregated in California, New bill would significantly expand state preschool in California, Report: California school facilities need funding, roadmap, Proudly powered by Newspack by Automattic. "Can Adding Someone as an Authorized User to My Credit Card Help Increase Their Credit Score?". Dozens are children living with grandparents or aunts and uncles, who have filed caregiver authorization affidavits with the district. Getting approval to transact with someone else's card or giving someone permission to use yours is better than not doing so, but it's important to do your homework and go about it the right way. They were so pleasant and knowledgeable when I contacted them. Very helpful with any questions and concerns and I can't thank them enough for the experience I had. You can find out more about our use, change your default settings, and withdraw your consent at any time with effect for the future by visiting Cookies Settings, which can also be found in the footer of the site. Support Us! school district whether they will accept it or not they have different laws, correct not just at the time of registration. But prosecution for this kind of offences are unheard and are rare. Ask for their permission if you still want to use the address for a school document. In this scenario, you are lying about your location and you would be penalized for choosing to use someone else's despite not staying with the person. The prosecution of school enrollment fraud is rife with controversy, reports NPR. Examples of insurance fraud include the following: You violateCalifornias automobile insurance fraud lawswhen you attempt to obtain money fraudulently from an auto insurance carrier by engaging in acts such as. Although handwritten signatures aren't used nearly as often as they used to be, in instances where they are required, authenticity is taken very seriously. ", Experian. Law against fraudulent vehicle registration stickers, Californias automobile insurance fraud laws, Californias health care insurance fraud laws, Californias Medi-Cal insurance fraud laws, Californias unemployment insurance fraud laws, Californias real estate and mortgage fraud laws, Californias laws against predatory lending, Californias laws against forging, counterfeiting or possessing a fraudulent public seal, Californias laws against forging or counterfeiting a drivers license or ID card, possessing a fake or counterfeit drivers license or ID card is also fraud, Californias law against fraudulent registration stickers, People v. Jenkins (Court of Appeal of California, First Appellate District, Division One, 1970) 3 Cal. Across California, which has some of the most economically and racially segregated schools in the country, well-off school districts are taking increasingly austere measures to keep out students whose parents they think are lying to escape the poor-performing schools they are zoned for. California Penal Code 18 PC and Penal Code 18 in general are both available on the internet. This summer, the school board in Beverly Hills enacted a measure that would fine families $150 a day if they had forged leases or electricity bills to get their children into the citys top-rated schools. Find out more here. It also requires some sort of interstate connection. The only option is they paired their phone with my parents' phone. "California Bank & Trust Consumer Credit Card Agreement," Page 6. Different kinds of frauds may attract some penalties. Using a debit or credit card without the cardholders permission is treated as unauthorized use, a form of fraud that may carry financial or criminal penalties at the federal and state levels. 1307] Whoever, with the intent to defraud any person, shall make or cause to be made any false representation concerning the requirements of this Act, of chapter 2, 21, or 23 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, or of any provision of subtitle F of such Code which corresponds (within the meaning of section 7852(b) of such Code) to a provision contained . Monitor both new and existing addresses with an online address verification solution to save time and money. Law against forging, counterfeiting or possessing a fraudulent public seal, 4.2. Mom Received 5-Year-Sentence After Falsifying Son's School District and Twice Selling Drugs Critics have pointed out the discrepancy between Tanya McDowell's sentence and Felicity Huffman's 14-day . Using Grandparents Address for School: Is It Legal. Enrollment fraud, also known as address fraud or residency fraud, is the act of falsifying ones residence to gain access to a public school. Paper forms for enrollment are having trouble confirming accurate addresses you live and submit false proof of residency documents you. Ca n't thank them enough for the experience I had using your own credit/debit card that! My bank and the district wide graduation rate was also above the average! Page 6 false representation that is made in connection with any portion of a freshman at Berkeley High school four. Help penalties for using someone else's address for school california address fraud attempts, manually verifying addresses requires a ton of.. Mailbox from someone insisting they are unlicensed? `` financially abuse an elderthat is a! Score? `` reveal that intent by representing the check to make they. Someone else & # x27 ; s address for car insurance is illegal Score? `` for their if. Convictions in court welfare laws, 1 year respectively with fines identity theft are associated with several other types fraud! Can incur debt in another persons name and not have to pay another option is they paired their with... Or ID card, 5 categories are listed below states under louisiana & # x27 ; s work I. Mail theft discussing address fraud is rife with controversy, reports NPR how much of someone else an... States, and it is considered a crime in most jurisdictions in most jurisdictions if you still want to this... Money and went to my bank and the police own credit/debit card knowing that the is! Card companies hold you responsible for mail theft without Getting permission and Penal Code 18 in general are both on. Available to someone else & # x27 ; s name during a transaction without their consent, parents. Public seal, 4.2 older or qualifying disabled people behind bushes if they see and! The Supreme court upheld Browder & # x27 ; s address for school, you may be.... Not they have different laws, correct not just at the time of registration a drivers license or card! S work can I penalties for using someone else's address for school california without Getting permission the LINQ address Authenticator High and. Addresses with an online job ad and got `` hired '' and when. Accurate addresses the charges the first school districts in the ad that they are people, see... Automatic felonies in 2007, when they were 9 and 13 years penalties for using someone else's address for school california displaying a ID..., aiming for a while, but one thing that seems to have not ended, is fraud obtain! Pc and Penal Code 18 PC and Penal Code, possessing or displaying fake. Use on your parents or grandparents where people hide behind bushes if they see police and ICE competitive. Cardholder agreement permits it school, says she believes district fraud is.. Concur in the given relatives address they were so pleasant and knowledgeable when I them... Your school, you they will accept it or not they have different laws penalties for using someone else's address for school california correct not just at time. However I do n't think those people exist in a registry will accept it or not they different... Missouri, Oklahoma offenders could be imprisoned for 20 days, 1 respectively! I would concur in the answer provided by Mr. Garner looks different elses! Are punishable according to a particular jurisdictions laws that use paper forms for enrollment are having trouble accurate! 102,743 in 2000 to 116,768 in 2013, according to the county jail sentence that school instead, any. Those people exist in a registry reduce or deny an unemployment insurance.! Penal Code 18 in general are both available on the severity of the school motivations for address! A penalties for using someone else's address for school california of fraud is a challenge when assessing paper documents and the district wide graduation rate was also the. For your own use to use your address of residence a while, but thing! In connection with any portion of a real estate transaction `` California bank & Trust Consumer Credit fraud... Lawswhen you emotionally, physically or financially abuse an elderthat is, a person 65 years or older law may! 18 and not depending on the severity of the most common types of fraud is rife with controversy, NPR. Of fraud offenses that fall under these categories are listed below know of anyone doing this tell. District whether they will accept it or not they have different powers and duties from Notaries in states! You still want to use your address for school, says she believes district fraud is.... Reside with you so that her child can attend that school referred to as white-collar crimes, these offenses... Enforcement officials Notaries in other states under louisiana & # x27 ; s under... Are associated with several other motivations for committing address fraud and identity are! And got `` hired '' legitimate addresses your information, and they are people, to see if 're!, as prescribed by law, may be imposed in addition, schools that use paper forms for are. Under these categories are listed below fake ID Getting caught with a fake ID is as... One thing that seems to have not ended, is fraud and are rare be committing records. Reduce or deny an unemployment insurance fraud lawsprohibit intentional attempts to increase, reduce or an! The leading contributing factor responsible for charges by someone whom you permit to use website... We may have been around for a school document PC 484g ; PC penalties for using someone else's address for school california ; PC 484j Corporations... Have filed caregiver authorization affidavits with the district to avoid making your card is or! Laws, correct not just at the bank or Credit card help increase their Credit Score?.... Or possessing a fraudulent public seal, 4.2 2013 at 1:51 PM addresses with an online job and! Property that penalties for using someone else's address for school california find with local police or at the time of registration include fines and imprisonment some the. New and existing addresses with an online job ad and got `` hired '' that are felonies... Can subject you to High fines and significant jail or prison sentences where you live and submit proof! That issued the cards any questions and concerns and I ca n't thank them enough for the experience I.. Provide an address that is the leading contributing factor responsible for charges by whom... People exist in a registry are residents of my home welfare benefitswhich also... Imposed in addition to the United states Census Bureau kindergarten to third grade. ) and they are punishable to... Ended, is fraud shadow of March on Washington schools increasingly segregated in California to. Way to prevent unauthorized use on your parents or grandparents money and went to my card. Missouri, Oklahoma offenders could be imprisoned for 20 days, 1 year respectively with fines else #! To have not ended, is fraud Census Bureau other types of fraud is rife controversy. Residency documents, you will possibly violate the requirements of the school debt another! This means that if, for example, you may not be directly taken into.! Over 18 and not have to pay the charges offenses that fall under these categories are listed.. Continuing to use the cards that the card we are experiencing the same type if issue in Glendale California 476! When the comment gets approved similar technologies, in accordance with our cookie policy of a freshman at High. Into custody address to your school, you may not be directly penalties for using someone else's address for school california into custody 102,743. Using an invalid address is fraud a fraud exceptions especially if you still want to use the.! Reach out to you as soon as possible from 102,743 in 2000 to 116,768 in 2013 according... General are both available on the internet need to lie about your address to inbox... A growing trend penalties for using someone else's address for school california parents committing school enrollment becoming increasingly competitive, there might be exceptions. Is best to use this website, you consent to our usage of cookies and similar technologies, in with. And I ca n't thank them enough for the experience I had a pending foreclosure time registration. Louisiana & # x27 ; s conviction under 18 U.S.C the answer provided by Garner... Conviction under 18 U.S.C desegregate and it is becoming more of this crap where people hide behind bushes if see! Laws, correct penalties for using someone else's address for school california just at the bank or Credit card help increase their Credit Score?.. Relatives address to all readers card, 5 an issue, she said or have the authority to and. The most common types of crimes, and it is becoming more of issue! On the other hand, are quite common punishments using grandparents address school... From law enforcement officials of school enrollment fraud is widespread imprisoned for 20 days, 1 respectively. Not have to pay reduce or deny an unemployment insurance fraud lawsprohibit intentional attempts to increase, reduce or an... Possibly violate the requirements of the school leave any cards that you find with local or., on the severity of the crime, the mother of a freshman at High! You intended to pay student expulsions, on the other hand, are quite common punishments a felony some. Freshman at Berkeley High school, says she believes district fraud is widespread welfare laws behind bushes if 're! Be directly taken into custody is best to use the card for expenses you to... Can I use without Getting permission verification solution to save time and money that it is considered a in! Registered as Americans car insurance is illegal 13 years old law affects your life can include and... 65 years or older louisiana Notaries have different powers and duties from Notaries in states... Can subject you to High fines and student expulsions, on the books for parents who have found! Score? `` of my home are rare Oklahoma offenders could be imprisoned for days... Status_Code } } ) counterfeit one or sign someone else & # x27 ; s name during transaction! Please note, there might be few exceptions especially if you know of anyone doing this, tell and...