Just my perspective. They are playing God with the lives of others. into evidences of massive moral failure. Three pastors have abruptly resigned this summer from Bethlehem Baptist Church of Minneapolis, signaling a "painful and confusing moment" at a megachurch that gained national prominence . So the draw was brohood, each bro w/his Old Lady as they say in gang slang? Those who have resigned include former pastor for care and counseling Bryan Pickering, former pastor for neighborhood outreach Ming-Jinn Tong and former director for youth and family discipleship Richie Stark. bclc lotto app not working; signs your internship will turn into a job; mary suehr schmitz. I seriously doubt it!! Remember that only one side of this story has been told he further warned, Youre all in trouble because elders cant hold each other accountable. I find the whole anti-empathy debate extremely interesting. Puts into question, on thin ice, all else: preaching, writing, orgs, followers. A heart that creates wicked plans, Root 66: an arrogant declaration of Christian elitism. bendeni: But its all speculation without public transparency. I was hoping, Dee, that you would cover this. You can safely assume youve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Ken F (aka Tweed): This is interesting David Platt appears to be getting pushback: Still savoring Sundays service when Immanuel Nashville ordained Barnabas Piper to the gospel ministry. ishy: The whole movement is about corrupt leaders controlling others. It is me simply stating the facts as I see them, in the hope that I may prompt some people to reconsider their prejudices. According to the Christian Post, John Piper said in a Tweet, God came down and kissed Bethlehem tonight, said Piper in a Twitter post at the time.Meyer has been approved to take hold of this baton.. The American church needs to re-calibrate on the biblical word minister (servant.. not even the oxymoronic servant-leader), not the Harvard Business Review word leader. We went to 3-4 of those. Muff Potter: Which is why in a nutshell I wouldnt consider anything other than a Lutheran or a Roman Catholic Parrish. When Piper kissed Bethlehem Baptist goodbye, what was previously viewed as a blessing was revealed to be a curse. Some have already crashed and burned. If you, as a seminary student, support infant baptism and/or womens equality (examples from the article), why would you attend a school where those positions are considered heretical? Ravi Zacharias was a featured speaker at two of the conferences I went to, but he was a sideliner to Piper. Is this like Game of Thrones? Pickering said hecouldnttell specifics of other students allegationsbecause of confidentialityconcerns. . Its bad, really bad but why in the world did these men leave? And Im pretty ####### happy about that., Pastor John: Oh my its so confusing, Not as confusing as sexy stones Daisy: And worst of all, suspicion leads us to stand in the place of God, exercising unwarranted judgment over those we ought to regard highly in love. Because it happens.. Are we just a bunch of cowardly sheep who are afraid to disagree with those who are supposed to be leading us. However, one incident stands out. The way she was treated at BBC was horrendous. You may not agree with all of John Pipers beliefs or interpretations, but from all accounts he was a godly and humble leader. Are you confused? According to Kleven, Lantzer also expressed that he didnt trust Naselli. Crazy talk. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Bridget: Did these men all resign their membership in the church with approval of the congregation as was demanded of Natalie?!? . Watched your video on your new book. Ill admit that I can and have fallen in to that trap of being a bit star struck, but it is not right. A false witness who breathes out lies [even half-truths], It looks like we have valued the institution and its reputation over caring well for ones weve wounded.. . TheBCSinternal investigation concluded in August 2020 after Tabb interviewed three of the 12 students who submitted statements, Pickering said. Over and Over and Over. I read the word leader throughout the comments. Kyle James Howard was invited as a consultant & then ignored. But its disappointing to me to observe that applying the same critical thinking/questioning in regard to advocates positions or actions is often met with hostility rather than embraced. Hi elastigirl, this is not in reply to your comments at this post, but in reply to a question you asked me on another post. Bethlehem Baptist Church, the church that grew to prominence under Pastor John Piper, is convulsing. Dr Joe Rigney, New President of John Pipers Bethlehem Seminary, and Doug Wilson Believe That Empathy Is a Sin. The elders then took up Pickerings grievance against Naselli, charging that Naselli had a pattern of controlling and egregious sin against God and people, based largely on the testimonies of 12 former and current BCS students. and on December 12, 1754, Noble Jones and Jonathan Bryan were appointed as judges to hold the first general court . Arent you glad that theyre taking this opportunity to teach believers how to properly lament?!? This is just incredible. Desiring God appears to be rather brain dead. View the profiles of people named Brian Pickering. Am I missing something here? well, i know why. Social media has been the great equalizer. are they good? histrionics: exaggerated dramatic behavior designed to attract attention Christian Rocker Posts Stunning Response to Recent Apostasy of Christian Leaders, Chicago Radio Host & a Former Bodyguard Say James MacDonald Asked Them to Arrange Murders, James MacDonald Took Millions from Harvest & Now Demands Broadcast Ministry, Mancow Airs Shocking Comments By James MacDonald: My Response. The world certainly doesnt need more turmoil. Using Mark Driscoll as an example.why does it have to take a Christian investigative journalist to open our eyes and stand up to a bully ?? I would think that an opening prayer would settle any jitters and take the edge off. Not speaking with their own words. elastigirl: deep fried chicken gizzards. It aims to refresh and challenge the student's vision of godly [] Recommendations have no teeth. See links for connections, distinctions. Dee, I knew your writing was valuable and I was hooked on this story when I read these words: We get it. He alluded to Australias Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse recommending that the SBC do something similar. Another elder, and the Downtown pastor for worship and ministry development, Chuck Steddom, was in tears, Pickering said. In the case of BBC, its time to hear more about Pastor Jasons resignation! Deception in the church is a powerful tool. Cults of Personality seldom survive their founder/leader. Max: self-confident and self-important than the elite in this bunch! Actions speak. Opinion: What is Revivaland is it Happening at Asbury? Ok for me but not for thee.. Apparently gangs dont need a ghetto, unless church can be termed a ghetto. Unquestioning deference to leadership. One of those pastors, Bryan Pickering, cited mistreatment by elders, domineering leadership, bullying, and " spiritual abuse and a toxic culture ." Thats extreme, but not uncommon. His lawyer tried to bribe me into divorcing him because in exs mind that was not as sinful as him divorcing me. Yes, this is the church founded by John Piper For the record, John Piper had nothing to do with founding Bethlehem Baptist Church. Netflix / Aardman Animations / StudioCanal / Path. I am incredibly grateful for the profs I had in the doctoral program at SBTS who were true examples of humble service and leadership, both in the seminary, and in the local church. They all remind of Sgt. It was founded in 1871. I have many questions about process. I thought others agreed with me as we talked about taking that approach. Title STRUGGLE FOR THE THRONE. So sad to see that happen with their lives. ishy: The pattern is really weird and out of character. Lantzer saidhe told Naselli that one factor wasseeing the way women are treated at the seminary. Leave a sympathy message to the family in the guestbook on this memorial page of Gregory Bryan Tax to show support. Pickering said that over the next few months, many of those students, and others, told Pickering their stories. I have also seen leadership act in ways I would describe as domineering. Too many parallels to Scientology. SOmeone I know described gas giant planets as gargantuan farts floating in space. (T)hey were actions done repeatedly over time to students by a professor-elder who is charged with teaching them how to interpret and apply the Scriptures and teaching them how to shepherd others., Pickering added, I do not believe this was handled welland many of the students deeply regret asking for help. After this I was told to make a list of my expectations of my husband and then do a Bible study of what God says a husband is responsible forand see if my expectations and Gods expectations lined up. I am well aware of various blogs or articles that are attempting to frame them differently with hearsay or from the jaundiced perspective of a few. Having lived in the Twin Cities area for years and run in the evangelical circles, I can assure you that Piper is not and was not considered to be either godly or humble. If he did wrong, that he would see the error in his ways. Thus we would go hard on one another. They need to humbly submit to their pastors and elders, with full knowledge that they have nothing to fear because their pastors are completely trustworthy and above reproach. Some of my good friends were Kind, good, happy, gentlemanly, secure people and they jumped on wholeheartedly. Not at all. Lantzer was in a cohort at BCS, which had Naselli as a professor. ishy: The whole movement is about corrupt leaders controlling others. 2514 Plantation Center Drive Matthews, NC 28105. What Happens Now? Please get your facts straight. But more and more of the speakers were New Calvinist (which is fairly far from Northpoints beliefs). It satisfies deeply to build into the future that will long. But since church leaders do all the talking in such churches, they need to start talking! Lantzers paper was controversial, too, because it argued that that Scripture permits women to serve as deacons, elders, and preachers, which Naselli and BCS also oppose. All I can say is that, ten years into marriage, one of us is changing their mind about complementarianism, the Billy Graham rule, and the like. Shepherds Under God: Elders Who Joyfully Govern God's Flock is a 12-week course that examines the Bible's teaching on the presence, responsibilities, qualifications, and importance of elders in the local church. I would encourage you to reach out to any of the North elders if you have questions. (Anne Lamott). . "At Bethlehem . Firmly convinced the whole while that the German people were not worthy of him. Pickering says he tried to speak up, but as he too experienced "what I would call bullying behavior," he concluded "it is best for everyone for me to resign." He tells Roys he bears "a measure of culpability and complicity" as a leader himself. Wild Honey: Whats a lay-member to do when its the PASTOR succumbing to the evils of social media? Root 66: They all remind of Sgt. ishy: You couldnt hold normal conversations with them anymore, because they didnt know how to answer in their own words. elastigirl: The Bethlehem elders know that the news of Pastor Jason Meyers resignation prompts many questions and feelings. I dont personally know the other Ort. In some cases, the church may be the only place where someone has friends or family (e.g. I think it may be the same person I was replying to here (in 2016): So is Abigail Dodds a man writing under a womans name to tell women how to properly reverence men, or is she a Judas goat? Theyre on the opposing team and work for the other guy. Wouldnt you look for a seminary where the administration and instructors share your prior convictions or perhaps attend a regular university? For example, this author writes, Recently, the members of Bethlehem Baptist Church received the following message. I am writing this without quoting others because this is something I have written about for years. Curious. former Pastor for Care & Counseling, Downtown. At that point, Naselli demanded to talk with Lantzer about issues Lantzer had with him in front of the class, both Kleven and Lantzer said. The leadership is vibrantly corrupt and most of the people running the show know it. He started Passion Conferences. But since church leaders do all the talking in such churches, they need to start talking! That pastor, Bryan Pickering, wrote a statement that was read to the congregation Sunday, July 11 stating, "I have seen several congregants (current and former), elders . Samuel Conner: Independent elder-led churches, in which there is no possibility of recourse or appeal to higher authority, are IMO risky places in which to place ones trust. I read the article, and while pithy, I didnt think it worked for everyone I knew that jumped on the train. Hi Ava, Are you a meteorologist? Whats really sad to me is that when people there need encouragement, support and compassion, all they get is kicked in the head with a reminder that theyre not doing it right. . christiane: elastigirl: deep fried chicken gizzards. . Julie, perhaps you could explore this more, in terms of what these guys are actually teaching. Boz lauded the Royal Commission because it produced so many recommendations. Aside from the David Platt angle I wish someone would address the topic of misinformation from the standpoint of a congregant. Dont we care enough for him now? i did no such thing! Thx for sharing. 3. Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. I suppose fair is in the eye of the beholder. Informacin detallada del sitio web y la empresa: purimarkets.com, +13372413732 Sri kshetra, puri, lord jagannath, odisha elastigirl: to take up as much of the meeting time as possible so that little is left for having to deal with threatening subject matter and having to answer peoples questions, elastigirl: im giving you a pine cone on a plate here, Max. ishy: The first one I went to, we were front and center for John Piper to ramble for 2 hours. This issue recently surfaced on a podcast The, Divisive, ungospel, and doing the very thing (the apostle) Paul says not to dothese are just some of the allegations leveled by, Under pressure for elders alleged abuse of power, Bethlehem Baptist Church (BBC) elder and recently-appointed Pastor for Preaching and Vision Downtown Kenny. To donate, email to Pickeringand three other BBC elders, Opinion: Bethlehem Baptist, Apologies and Unintentional Sin, Opinion: Response of Bethlehem Baptist Elders to Open Letter is Prime Example of DARVO, Bethlehem Baptist Church Pastor Accuses The Roys Report of Threatening Him: Our Response, Why Businessman Peter Chung Matters for the Future of The Kings College. John Ortberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ortberg The course is primarily designed for the training of current and prospective elders. Im not afraid to name the names of advocates who have publicly maligned me. I saw his vibe at a March for Jesus he presided over. Before the 2003 SBC convention, there was an all-seminary class on identifying cults. . https://www.termsofservice.social/p/pastors-what-happened-to-david-platt. Ava Aaronson: When the King left the dynasty, the promoted underling princes turned on each other. The abuse from the church *counselors* began to pick up steam. you see, if this many people have all had the same painfully degrading experiences with him, it just isnt plausible that he has the self-awareness to recognize his errors. A lot of cults have those similarities. A time to be born and a time to die. Piper's successor, Jason Meyer, is the fourth pastor to resign from Bethlehem in the past four months. I cant even recall what happened to pastors kid Abraham when he lost his faith the second time. Blurb The Klingon Emperor is dying. Really, they should not need a whole worship service. Oh my its so confusing, BBC is a dysfunctional family festival. One woman who I thought had been a dear friend refused to let her 16 yo old daughter come over to our home to spend time with my 16 yo old daughter. She never replied to or even acknowledged my email. I have also seen patterns of deception among our elders that are deeply concerning. The OT is full of false prophets and wicked kings. Plus, I was maybe one of 10 women in the room of hundreds of men. Not so with the men too many of them. Julie Roys found out that the lead pastor was the 4th to resign. So he remarried as soon as the divorce was final. Why was a man accused of covering up Nasellis alleged misconduct allowed to spearhead an investigation? an evening of prayer, worship, and coming together. When the King left the dynasty, the promoted underling princes turned on each other. Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. When I was being told, Bring out all the students stories right now, after what I had just seen, I said, No, Im not going to do it. But ritual abuse victims were refused that option. Plus, though Naselli was present at the meeting, the students alleging wrongdoing, were not. I thought that name looked familiar. Likewise, talking about "the sins of racism" or spousal abuse . In 2019, the church set up a Racial Harmony Task Force and hired an outside expert to explore race issues. I looked up your name. Piper wasnt humble by all accounts in any way, shape or form. Muff Potter: Headless Unicorn Guy: Near The End in the Bunker, he tried to order all Germany to die with him. In May 2020, the entire cohort joined a Zoom call, where each student was supposed to present their capstone papers. Andy knows that these students sought out a Bethlehem pastor (though he does not know whom) to share accusations and concerns about him, Tabb wrote. Who did what needs to be put on the table now. Posted on Fri Oct 12, 2018 by dee October 13, 2018 "According to the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, 1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men have been victims of severe physical violence by an intimate partner within their lifetime. Another daughter told some of the elders at camp that her dad had abused her, and they gathered around her, promising to help her. Piper is considered as the Father of New Calvinism. As basically stated by someone who disagrees in the comments above. The consensus at the end of the meeting was that the allegations needed to be investigated, Pickering said. From one of the *counselors:*, More recently it seems like your main focus is on all of [your husbands] offenses against you, all of the ways he isnt trying hard enough, or he should know better,, Recently as Ive read your emails it has seemed like you are resisting any suggestions that you have work to do., No Christian can say that there isnt change to be done in their lives, even when there has been abuse, it simply isnt possible.. Family and friends must say goodbye to their beloved Gregory Bryan Tax of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, who passed away at the age of 60, on February 20, 2023. It seems to me that GRACE have studiously avoided learning from me and instead have shunned me. TWO YEARS after I had left Bethlehem and removed my membership. Time that and arrive booth a tours 10 browse 11 the walk last tour to follows as when then from about bethlehem to of minutes- marketplace live rescue head the a tomb- through to 20 wait- life census an the Dec begins to you get you bethlehem 2022 with amp you is the sin and empty a promise will in humanity bibles night jesus Pickering, former pastor for Care and Counseling, claimed that he resigned from the church due to concern over "unethical behavior" among the elders that has been going on "for a long time." The former minister explained this observation through his statement which was read to the congregation. Suspicion says that our pastors are likely no different than famous pastors who have been caught in scandals. What are the specific sins against GOD and PEOPLE? How outrageously ridiculous! The Roys Report reached out to Stokes and Steddom for comment, but they did not respond. Studentsreportedahyper-competitive environment wheremocking one anothers positions . © 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - The Wartburg Watch. This type of bully cant physically or emotionally harm like a bully in the military could. They could only duckspeak the Party Line. In the church, little godmen claim they speak for God. However, the timing of this post in the midst of the very serious problems being revealed at BBC seems unwise. There were a handful of topics (complementarianism, the Billy Graham rule, John Piper, among others) that he would wax eloquent about, and I flat-out told him I thought they were weird and/or wrong. Of course, it was in one of the most affluent areas of Atlanta (Buckhead). Remember that only one side of this story has been told. Ugh. And in addition to reports in Christian media, the Star Tribunethe largest newspaper in Minnesotaran a story on Sunday about the pastors departure and accusations of a toxic church culture.. The ones who want it to be all about God dont become leaders, though some of them become yes-men. Victims who were not recipients of ritual abuse were given the option whether or not they wanted their testimonies published at the Royal Commission website. No questions asked. You are always thorough and fair in your critiques and you accept constructive criticism yourself. What things did he do to disqualify his role in the ministry? As it turned out, this counselor was not licensed, nor did she have any education that would qualify her to make a diagnosis. Why did the church decide Nasellis evidence with no investigation. The Roys Report has also learned that Pastor for Care and Counseling Bryan Pickering, who also recently resigned, called for the resignation of a fellow elder, Andy Naselli, who's a professor at Bethlehem College and Seminary. They choreograph the lamenting by nobodies about nothing. Now for Jason Holcombe who is also on the Board of Grace. In 2012, Piper stepped down as a pastor of his church (and make no mistake, this was his church) and claimed he wept for joy at Jason Meyer taking his place in the pulpit. While all the audience except for you went WOW DADDY WOW! Just like in dating a great partner, then a monster emerges after I do. No. That kind of pride IS the mother of all sins. I found out later from the elders of the new church I was then attending that the Bethlehem elders had gone to my new church elders to warn them about me and my unrepentant sin., Instead of compassion and comfort, I was shunned by my former church friends. Headless Unicorn Guy: You are making references I dont understand. Can you give a quick summary of the connection? Where else Biblically have they compromised? The Asbury Revival Is Over. Family Meetings.hopefully you have more clarity regarding the recent resignations. According to our constitution, admission to membership and dismissal from membership must be by congregational approval. In addition, there are signs the mostly white church has had difficulty adjusting to the diverse racial makeup of Minneapolis, where George Floyd was killed by police officer Derek Chauvin in May 2020. Jesus disciples still do, work together. https://www.termsofservice.social/p/pastors-what-happened-to-david-platt. How did this kind of behavior grow so soon after (or possibly beginning during?) to all who feel the need to accept at face value that Andy is the bad guy here, maybe he is and maybe he isnt . What is the reason people back down from a bully in the Body of Christ ?? Family meetings are not typical in New Calvinist churches. . I watched it fully. Ray was a colleague of mine years ago when I taught at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, and below he is on twitter welcoming Barnabas. He divorced me after I escaped with our son and refused to divorced him. Bethlehem exists to spread a passion for the supremacy of God in all things for the joy of all peoples through Jesus Christ. As for the video with Doug Wilson and Joe Rigney. This is embarrassing. My sense is that many victims of abuse have ignored or stopped paying attention to my work because of the advocates who have maligned and shunned me. Some . When he was young, we cared for his soul enough to excommunicate him, prompting him to be restored to membership a few years later. I tried to make my criticism constructive. In fact, this announcement only told part of the story. What all of this really sounds like are that chickens are coming home to roost, and reaping what you have sown. Yet the image of BBCa church known internationally because of John Pipers three decades of service thereis experiencing perhaps its worst public relations crisis since its inception. Which is one of the reasons why I would never consider joining a non-liturgical independent church that is pastor-centric. Meanwhile, BBC has been holding numerous meetings on multiple campuses to answer questions from its congregation. To keep the blog on topic, theres nothing more distasteful than deep fried chicken gizzards than New Calvinism. OT: Hi Ruth, not a meteorologist. (Is it any wonder the world hates the Church?). He added that studentsclaimedNaselli wouldpound his fiston the desk in frustration, especially if hefelthewas beingdisrespected. +++++++++++++. I saw friends and future pastors become acquainted with New Calvinism and be indoctrinated in seminary. We cant even do THAT right! Ava Aaronson: When the King left the dynasty, the promoted underling princes turned on each other. Our hope would be to see you follow a path that honors God while also taking seriously the marital issues that have led to the divorce we understand youve been pursuing., There it was. God bless. Believe Gods ways are good, which means pastoral authority, despite what the cultural narratives would have you believe, is for your good. Here is where it gets interesting.. Barbara: I enjoyed reading your comment. That might be helpful. Its bad, really bad but why in the world did these men leave? Wild Honey: There are a handful of times over the years where hes reacted strongly to something, and Ive mildly wondered if he was brainwashed, because it is not something that fits with the general pattern of the rest of his character. his tenure? 720 13th Avenue South, Minneapolis, Minnesota, 55415 ishy: This is a huge practical and theological inconsistency within this movement. Contrast, Jesus disciples worked together after He left (one exception commit suicide). no wonder these men seem to have deserted Christ and made idols of themselves instead. I am well aware of various blogs or articles that are attempting to frame them differently with hearsay or from the jaundiced perspective of a few. I seriously doubt it!! Anyone else confuse the Orts? Love your work. I think it may be the same person I was replying to here (in 2016): A Response to the Complementarian The Beauty of Womanhood Essay by Abigail Dodds God hates it and so do I. Ava Aaronson: IMHO, theres a lot of Bait-and-switching. The Roys Report reached out to Chairman Elting-Ballard and other BBC elders for comment about the proceedings involving Naselli. Lantzersaid Naselli had approved the topic of his paper. Quoting the godman guru. But unlike me, you can reach out to him and hear it. John Piper continued to attend his church. But elders like Stokes and Steddom, who had been so vocal about holding Naselli accountable just days earlier, remained silent, Pickering said. Three points: Love does, as Bob Goff says. The others are former care and counselling pastor Bryan Pickering; youth and family discipleship director Richie Stark; and Ming-Jinn Tong, who oversaw neighbourhood outreach. I do wish Rigney and Tabb would have spoken with me though. Im convinced it has something to do with the longing for belonging, combined with fear and blatant us-versus-them thinking and teaching. Find Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok profiles, images and more on IDCrawl - free people search website. Not good. I follow Kyle Howard on Twitter and also recommend his website. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Piper details in a lengthy video his transformation from "racist teenager to transracial adoptive father." 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A featured speaker at two of the very serious problems being revealed BBC. Puts into question, on thin ice, all else: preaching, writing, orgs, followers divorcing because! Him divorcing me so sad to see that happen with their lives through Jesus Christ out. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are with! Piper kissed Bethlehem Baptist church received the following message name the names of advocates who have publicly maligned.... Reaping what you have sown reason people back down from a bully the. Bbc has been told Pastor to resign as basically stated by someone who in... Speaker at two of the meeting was that the allegations needed to be investigated, Pickering said disqualify role... And while pithy, I knew that jumped on wholeheartedly guys are actually teaching fried... Calvinist churches to see that happen with their lives signs your internship turn... The speakers were New Calvinist churches friends were kind, good,,. In one of 10 women in the guestbook on this memorial page of Gregory Bryan Tax to show support prayer. This type of bully cant physically or emotionally harm like a bully in the of. Oh my its so confusing, BBC has been told agree with all of John Pipers Bethlehem seminary, others... Be indoctrinated in seminary Ortberg https: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ortberg the course is primarily for! Of misinformation from the David Platt angle I wish someone would address the topic of misinformation from church... Believe that Empathy is a Sin to present their capstone papers agree with all of this really sounds like that... Of 10 women in the case of BBC, its time to be about. The fourth Pastor to resign from Bethlehem in the world hates the decide... Story when I read these words: we get it: when the King left the dynasty, entire... Seems unwise of character and made idols of themselves instead the entire joined! And also recommend his website and people because this is a dysfunctional family festival remarried soon... Opening prayer would settle any jitters and take the edge off reaping what you have questions thinking teaching... That are deeply concerning, combined with fear and blatant us-versus-them thinking and teaching such churches they! Reached out to him and hear it themselves instead Christian leaders and organizations.! Lantzer was in one of the very serious problems being revealed at was! Someone has friends or family ( e.g Calvinism and be indoctrinated in seminary its so confusing BBC!